SQUIRREL!!!!

     So I went back to the Squirrel Performance Turbo Calculator and retried their program, I typed in my desired specs, (my specs). (change liters to CID and back to liters if lower data doesn't show) And the best map I saw was the GT2860R-2 or  GT2860RS. I know the world will say there is no way I can get 215hp out an Iron Duke. But that's what the program says at 10psi. And 187hp at 7psi. I'm happy with that.
     My plans include a real ecm not the OEM calculator the Fiero came with, so I'll have full timing control using one or even two knock sensors, the OEM ecm uses none. The OEM timing curve does not vary, it's set and does not change based on load, if it was programed for 20 degrees it will set the timing at 20 degrees. Where I might only need 15 degrees at the same time with a turbo.
     Using the Desktop Dyno 2000 program and entering specs from Amotion Cams, I get a max HP of 144hp at 4500 rpm. Using the old school "turbos ad 45% hp" that gives me 208hp. 144hp will still be fun, but if the stars and planets align 200hp will be even better.

Back to the project.......

     I'm back to thinking about turbo-ing the 2.5. I started redoing/ rechecking my previous research, found out that the 6.25 length con rods i wanted are no longer made, but on the bright side the 6.125 rods will work and are available in singles, so i don't need to buy 8 to get 4. I'm exploring the possibility of aluminum rods, some do come in 6.2 length, but pistons are harder to match to that length.
     Big news though Megasquirt has released the MS3pro

     Looks like and features resemble the sequencer they had promised a while back. Actually it's probably more powerful and feature packed than I need, but if I later change to a V-6 or V-8 I won't need to buy another ECM. Unfortunately it costs $1199 from Diyautotune.com. Ouch. But it's preassembled and already loaded with software. 

     A cheaper alternative is the Megasquirt 3 with ms3x expansion for only $645 plus cables (another $85 or so). And it could still run a V-6 or V-8 with the LSx series coils I want to use. They have even cheaper models, but they won't run the coils I want.

     I'm still researching the connecting rods, ICON 735 pistons should work with the 6.125 rods to give me a compression ratio around 8.18:1. I've found others but this combo is available so this might be the way I go.

     Garrett's website says that a GT2252 turbo will be perfect for my setup. Garret says it's good for 150 - 260hp on a 1.7 to 2.5l engine. I'm not going to go crazy with boost, around 7psi tops, if that only gives me 175, then I'll be sastisfied. I'd like to hit 200hp. Base hp for the Fiero is around 90hp so a good cam and a turbo could get me to 180. If I can find studs and a MLS head gasket I might go higher with boost, maybe 12psi max. I know this engine isn't a Honda H22, so I don't want to blow it up. Since I haven't had any luck with the head studs yet (ARP makes 1/2" studs but my engine is metric) I'm not going to pursue the high boost.

     I am planning on using an intercooler, probably a small one under the driver's side vent panel, and fiberglass snorkel over the roof. i looked into a water to air intercooler and the second radiator & water pump would take up too much space. I want to find or make scoops like theses.

Unfortunately this is the best picture I can find right now.

 I also want to get side scoops to let more air in. 

And a deck lid scoop to let the hot air out.

Although not that gawdy.

Lost another engine...

So the junkyard wouldn't come down on the price on the 3400. It had a cracked starter mounting pad, so who other than a wierdo like me would want it? My boss and I got tired of looking at the motor so we sent it back. I also got very distracted by a motorcycle, so my attention has slipped away from the fiero.

Back to the V6 engine?

I have a slightly used 3400 out of a 2006 Equinox sitting on the floor next to my bay. My boss is trying to get me a deal on the engine, and if it works out I'll have that as my new project.
I still would like to put a turbo on it, if I can figure out what size I need. I also need a computer, I'm thinking MS3 cause I still have the LS series coils I want to use. I have a lot of the wiring off the engine and all brackets except the a/c mount. I will have to swap out the intake I already have because the Equinox intake is way to tall to use. But all I need to put the 3400 in the car is a flywheel, clutch and front motor mount bracket. So the MS3, turbo, injectors and fuel pump will be the large expense.

Peace of mind?

     In my seemingly never ending search for the piece of information that will make me feel that I've made the correct decision I came across this java page Ray Hall Turbo Size Calculator. Not the greatest as far as instructions, but type in only a few bits of data and it will recommend a turbo. In contrast the calculator here at Squirrel Performance Turbo Calculator is very data intensive, to the point of confusion. Even if you could muddle your way trough the data, you still have to sort through the turbo compressor maps. Really?
     I later remembered the Garrett Boost Adviser which comes in web, android and apple versions. I downloaded the android version to my phone and tablet thinking I had found a great new app to play with anytime I had a thought about the set up. But to my disappointment, the app didn't get past the last screen on either my phone or tablet. So I tried the web version. Again, got all the way to the last screen where you enter your zip code so the program can find your local baro pressure...I let it sit there on that screen for 45 minutes with no change, all I could do was open the help or restart the whole app. So I downloaded the Product Catalog and used that instead, and that shows more than one turbo would work for my set up. At least I'm a little closer.  A month later and the Garret app started working, results didn't help much, but at least the app works.

Starting back down the turbo path....

     I still have the used turbo from a Saab (9000 I believe) that is basically a T25 that was on a 2.0. I'm only going to use it for mock up, not planing on actually using it because it needs rebuilt. I rather buy one and use the old one for mock up, that way if I destroy it in the process I won't be out anything.
     In my search for the right size turbo I've visited many sites that have calculators to help recommend a turbo. But they ask so many questions that I don't know the answers to that they were almost useless. All I wanted was a simple answer to my problem.
               When will the turbo start to make boost??
     Too big of a turbo and I might have to rev the motor to 3500 or more to get boost, then what's the point? I want boost down lower, like starting around 2000 to 2500 for more fun on the street. The other concern, although highly unlikely to ever happen, would be using too small of a turbo that would spool quickly but run out of flow before my red line.

     So I found a site that gave the mathematical formulas to do your own calculations and links to compressor maps to use your data. And there I was, a D math student calculating stuff light years above what I barely got in high school. I gave up when my eyes started crossing and the numbers started running together before I could figure out which turbo I needed.
     So I tried the same approach that got me through math, find a shortcut to the known answer and generalize the next set of data.  

     So I did the calculations my way-

               2.0 liter engine with a 6500 red line -- 2.0 * 6500 = 13,000  stock Saab setup
               2.5 liter engine with a 5500 red line -- 2.5 * 5500 = 13,750  my setup
     So using my backward method math a T25 will be perfect for the 2.5. Now I could rev the 2.5 higher, some guys on the net brag about spinning theirs to 6500 with no problems, but I'm going to try and impose a 5500 red line to help make the engine run longer.
     During my searches I found places selling twin turbo headers for 350 chevys with T25 flanges   
               5.7 liter engine with a 6500 red line -- 5.7 * 6500 = 37,050  normal red line
               5.7 liter engine with a 4500 red line -- 5.7 * 4500 = 25,650  just under 2x the 2.0 saab
     If they think that two T25s can feed a 350 on the street and my math says it would take 2 T25s to feed a 5.7, I must be in the neighborhood of close to correct if you set it up mildly. Obviously a 350 could handle much much bigger turbos, I've read articles on 1000hp twin turbo setups, but I'm only looking for 200 tops.